It all began with a band called Zennith in Brakpan near Johannesburg in 1977. Dutch born Lucien Windrich began playing with school friends which included bassist Benjy Mudie, the future South African music custodian. The band changed its name to Void and the following year was joined by Lucien’s younger brother, Erik also born in Holland. Even though the band had won a battle of the bands in Joburg in 1978 they were battling to find paying gigs in South Africa. The band found the opening they needed in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, on the live circuit. The guys spent 8 months there together with drummer Danny de Wet (Petit Cheval & Wonderboom) and bassist Terry Andalis. In 1979 the band recorded a cover of the Knack’s smash hit My Sharona but it was the B-Side Magicia that took off and reached number 4 on the country’s charts. Here is My Sharona, Void style…
Can’t seem to find a copy of Magicia. Lucien?
Q. Hi Lucien, thanks so much for Jive Talking with us in South Africa. So, one could say that you had your first taste of success in Rhodesia. It is obvious that you had your African spin right from the start, even with Void, and your version of My Sharona has that tribal influence. Did you listen to tribal music and was this the main influence on your music? Who were you listening to at the time?
A. In the late 70’s I was listening to rock bands like Grand Funk and Bad Company and prog rock bands like Wishbone Ash and Genesis and learning to play guitar like all the guitar players back then. The local South African influence came later in the early 80’s during our residency in East London when we started afresh as a three-piece.
I don’t think we had an obvious tribal influence back in the 70’s. We were just experimenting with various rock and pop idioms. As ‘Void’ we went from one extreme to the other. We composed and performed a 17 min prog rock epic called How Calm the Storm which people would sit and listen to quietly throughout. And then we put a middle-of-the-road song called Magicia on the B-side of My Sharona. It was an eclectic mix of stuff.
Going to Bulawayo in 1979 was the first professional residency gig for the four of us, me Erik, Danny and Terry. We told ourselves from the outset that we would only do residencies playing cover songs as long as we could write and perform our own stuff as well. So it was a real boost when people requested our own stuff. It gave us the confidence to continue writing. Those early residency gigs were an invaluable learning curve for us towards developing our own original style and sound.
We had our first success in Rhodesia with a cover version of My Sharona because the original wasn’t allowed to be played due to sanctions. It was fun watching everyone do ‘the pogo’ when we played the song in the club. There’s even a video of us doing the pogo in the Zimbabwean TV vaults somewhere. What we never expected was to be playing to young soldiers who had been in the bush for six weeks shooting and killing people, and then coming into the club to dispel their tensions. We quickly learnt to keep them entertained with our music and performances which helped to prevent outbreaks of violence suddenly erupting inside the club. And believe me, it did erupt. We threatened to stop playing if they didn’t stop fighting. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. One of the cover versions we did at the time was a song by Rush called Bastille Day which strained Erik’s voice so much he had to have an operation to remove the nodules on his vocal chords.
And what should have been a highlight for us was when Bob Marley came to play at Independence Day, April 1980. We were literally in the next town. We asked the manager Marjorie if we could have the night off and she said no. Can you believe it? Like good Catholic school boys we did as we were told. WTF!
Void returned to South Africa and decided to change their identity after Terry Andalis, José “Aggi” de Aguiar and Danny de Wet departure in 1982. Lucien, Erik and third brother Karl, the band’s manager, changed their name to éVoid and it became a three piece with Georg Voros on drums who was replaced by Wayne Harker early in 1983. éVoid built up a large, loyal following which started in East London and then spread like a forest fire over the next 4 years. The band were creating a highly original and subtle fusion of Afro-rock (which they christened ethnotronics), which was different from the more traditional sounds of their contemporaries, Juluka and Hotline, or the rock-based Tribe After Tribe, Ella Mental, Via Afrika, Flash Harry and Neill Solomon’s Passengers. éVoid conveyed immediacy, simplicity and warmth of spirit of other Afro-rock bands with their newly painted faces, tribal dances and South African jive rhythms.
Q. Your style, was it based on any one African culture like the Ndebele patterns and the Zulu bracelets and beeds or a combination of those and others. Who made your outfits and what did the African people think of it? Did they give you their blessing?
A. The eVoid style was developed in East London when we were faced with becoming a three-piece. It was a deliberate attempt to create what Aggi called Soweto New Wave – a fusion of rock & mbanga grooves, jangly guitars, punchy keyboard riffs and a local South African influenced image. But vocally we were still mainly European sounding.
We weren’t interested in being as indigenous as Johnny Clegg much as we respected him. We wanted to create our own punky afro-pop style. Plus we were into the nu-romantic image at the time.
My ex-wife Kay designed and made the clothes and Erik’s ex-wife Linda helped make them. They were called K-rags and we loved wearing them. It really helped define our local white South African image at the time.
We commissioned a whole lot of African women to make the Ndebele beadwork merchandise for us. We gave them the eVoid logo and told them to incorporate it into the designs as they wish.
Yes I admit it was a cultural appropriation but we never exploited anyone. Our feeling at the time was that we were promoting local music and images. And we were financially supporting groups of women who were happy to be given the business. Did they give us their blessing? Well, at no time did anyone of them refuse the work. As to what they actually thought of us, I don’t really know. We told them they were making merchandise for the band and they never objected.
Success arrived when WEA (now Tusk) signed them to a recording contract. The band released their debut self titled album éVoid in August 1983 which yielded their first single Shadows. It was backed by the infectious Dun Kalusin Ta Va, which had become a hallmark of their sound. Shadows peaked at number three on the national charts in November and, to this day, remains a staple of South African rock and pop-oriented radio stations. Here is that classic single performed to adoring fans at Ellis Park in 1985.
Q. That was probably one of the greatest era’s in South African music and those concerts at Ellis Park were magical. Can you recall any special moments at the Concert in the Park?
A. It was an emotional high for us. Three weeks after playing the biggest and most prestigious concert in Joburg we left for the UK. Towards the end of playing Shadows it dawned on me that it may be the last time we ever played in SA again. And what a gig to be ending it on. I have been known to be melodramatic.
It was magical stepping out on stage early in the evening and seeing a sea of faces stretching out and upwards towards the top of Ellis Park stadium. I will never forget that. Amazing! People often ask what it feels like, and to be honest once you’re actually playing all you can see are lots of tiny heads bobbing up and down. You’re really just performing to the front rows with whom you can have some kind of connection. And then when Erik starts waving his hands in the air from side to side, and you see 100’000 people responding, there’s nothing quite like it. It’s a huge high!
I can remember being backstage with Johnny Clegg on the day, along with some other musicians getting ready. We hadn’t met or spoken before and we exchanged pleasantries about how wonderful this gig was. He complimented us on Shadows which was a lovely thing to do. That whole day and everything leading up to it was a sign that we were at the top of our game. And we were about to leave that all behind.
The weird thing is we nearly didn’t even do the gig. We were offered the gig a few months earlier knowing it was for a worthwhile cause but we had already booked our flights to the UK so we turned it down. The organisers offered it to us a second time and by then the hype was building about how momentous the gig was going to be, featuring 25 of the top acts in South Africa at the time. So we agreed. Thank God we did. Imagine if we had turned it down? It would’ve been our ‘Dylan misses
Woodstock’ moment. For us, I mean.
What we’re really proud of is the fact that the SA organisers conceived and actually pulled off this benefit gig for Operation Hunger six months before Bob Geldof launched Live Aid. Yesss!
éVoid had found their niche and this time found them at the peak of their creative spirit. The follow-up single Taximan was released in February 1984 and it got to number 6 on the national charts..
Later that year, I Am a Fadget became the band’s third single. This version was performed live at At The Half Moon , Putney in 2015….
and here are the lyrics…. https://genius.com/Evoid-i-am-a-fadget-lyrics
Q. So good to see you still playing this after all these years. I would assume that it is mostly old ex South Africans jumping around or are the true Brits also getting into that now? Would you like to comment on where the name Fadget came from as there have been a number of different theories and it is maybe time to set the record straight so to speak.
A. Are there many theories about what a Fadget is, really? I’d love to hear them.
Erik and I wrote the song in a rehearsal room one day, and when it got to looking for lyrics for a particular section I blurted out ‘I am a Fadget’ and we burst out laughing because it obviously sounded like ‘faggot’ which was a ridiculous choice and not what I had intended.
You see, I liked this British artist called Fad Gadget, and whilst developing our pseudo African image, to be seen as fashion icons or ‘fad gadgets’ must have been at the back of my mind. So when I blurted it out as a possible lyric it came out as ‘fadget’. We weren’t seriously going to use it cause people might think we’re calling ourselves ‘faggots’ which as you well know is a derogatory term for gay men. But as so often happens when you try and replace it with something else, the song loses something. So we went with it in the end. Our colourful jive image now had a name.
When we arrived in London we played at the Springbok Bar for many years, first in Paddington then Shepherds Bush and finally in Covent Garden. And yes like you say mainly all ex-pats. eVOID then was just Erik and I with a drum machine and bass loops. Every now and then Colin, one of the ex-pats would organise a booze cruise on the river Thames and we would experience a few hours of absolute mayhem on board. We also played on the Queen Elizabeth cruise ship which was docked at Victoria Embankment. It was a lot of fun.
Did the Brits get into our music? Yes they did. We played at some smaller pubs and clubs and sold loads of CDs but without an international album and English management we couldn’t get onto bigger venues and tours. We did a gig at the Astoria in Tottenham Court Road, and a small tour of Germany in the late 80’s with Ilne Hofmeyr on bass and Richard Devey on drums. That was great. In fact I remember this German guy coming up to me afterwards saying ‘that guitar, is INXS, ja? He was referring to my Junk Jive riff of course. ‘No it’s not’ I replied. ‘It’s just some Aussie shits stealing our thunder!’
éVoid were performing with not for dedicated fans — “fadgets”, as they were known — dressed in almost equally outrageous and colourful ethno-gypsy garb, who queued for hundreds of metres to see them. We all used to go and see them at the Chelsea Hotel in Berea, near Hillbrow and the venue was always packed. I can recall going to one of éVoid’s gigs at the Chelsea only to be told the club was full and I had to go clubbing elsewhere… “Oooh La la Laa, I like it ”
Q. Do you remember those Chelsea Hotel gigs? I only managed to go to a few but heard that you played there many times…. Like how many?
A. Can’t remember how many gigs we did there but without a doubt the Chelsea Hotel years were legendary. It was 1983, the same year we recorded our first album, and fadgets were queuing round the block to come and see us. It was an extraordinary sight.
We lived round the corner so we couldn’t even go to the shop to get some milk for fear of being caught without our fadget gear and make-up on.
I remember our drummer Wayne being stoned a lot; Karl our brother/manager was running the door and it was where we wrote Shadows. We used to rehearse in the club during the daytime which was handy.
I don’t know if you know the story about Shadows nearly not making it on the album. What happened was we had already decided with WEA Records which songs we were going to record and put on the album. And then we wrote this new song called Shadows and I remember saying to Benji we have to include this new song we’ve just written and he said no, the track listing had already been agreed, and that he couldn’t change it so late in the day. Erik and I pleaded with him and he eventually agreed. But that’s not the end of it. Whilst recording the song, the studio engineer told us the song would never make it. Well you were wrong, Richard.
Every night we played at the Chelsea Hotel the dance floor would dip inwards and creak from the weight of people jumping up and down to Shadows. I thought the floor was going to break and we’d have a catastrophe on our hands. Which did happen when we were on tour at Stellenbosch University; the floor collapsed and a group of people tumbled and disappeared. And then people pushing from behind caused an even bigger pile-up. Crazy stuff. They eventually laid a couple of tables across the hole for people to dance on. Luckily it never happened at the Chelsea.
Occasionally the Chelsea party would spill out onto the streets though. That was fun. I particularly liked the State of Lumo theme we designed for the stage. Nic Hauser helped design and build a lot of the sets, and he also designed the cover for the 12-inch version of ‘I am a Fadget’. What’s happened to Nic, I wonder?
The band went on a gruelling 3-week national tour playing to packed venues on the Durban University Campus, Bloemfontein, Cape Town but they ran into problems before the start of their Eastern Cape leg of the tour. In Grahamstown military police arrested drummer Wayne Harker for being on AWOL since December 1982 from his 2 year national service. Original drummer Danny de Wet was hurriedly recruited to complete the tour.
Harker was discharged in March 1984 and the band was back in business. In September 1984 their debut album was high in the national charts which was rare for a local band competing with the big international acts of the time. While this was happening their three-track 12″ maxi single Kwela Walk/I am a Fadget/Tellem and Gordon, was receiving rave reviews.
Q. This song and in fact a lot of your music had a definite crossover appeal. Is that what you were hoping for and did you play to many mixed-race crowds? Did you have many “black” fans and friends at the time?
Kwela Walk was a great tune. Erik wrote it with crossover appeal in mind but we didn’t get to play to many mixed race audiences. We once did an outdoor township gig and were viewed with amusement. There were more people sniggering in the crowd than actually grooving to the music. Which pretty much says it all. We were a white nu-romantic pop band not an African groove machine, much as I would have liked to have had more of that in our music.
Having said that, I was exposed to mbaqanga music whilst working in an African record shop which came out later in my guitar playing. Junk Jive comes directly from my early attempt to create a hybrid mbaqanga punk sound. Taximan was another example of creating an interlocking groove. Baghiti Khumalo loved playing the bass on it. We bumped into him in London a few years later when he was gigging with Paul Simon and he said how much he enjoyed doing the track. He asked why we weren’t doing what Paul Simon was doing. That was our intention, I said, when we left SA. But It’s not as simple as that. In South Africa we were big fish in a small pond and in the UK it’s the exact opposite. Plus we’re white South Africans.
During the three prominent years of our career from the end of 1982 to the beginning of 1985 we played to young white audiences. That’s who the management and record companies targeted, and that’s the demographic we attracted. Not many clubs were multiracial back then. I had more relationships with black people in the 70’s when I was working in an African record bar called ‘American Music’, and when I frequented black music clubs in downtown Jo’burg. In terms of lasting friendships back then, not many. We lived our whirlwind lifestyle in a bubble. That’s what it was like.
The band usually attracted good press coverage though éVoid were on occasion labelled as androgynous misfits, pretentious white boys in beads, and shallow-minded slaves to fashion and rhythm.
In 1984 the group won a prestigious Sarie Award for “best arrangement and production of an album”, and the single I Am a Fadget landed them the “best contemporary artist” award.
On Saturday 12 January 1985, the band performed at the Concert In The Park in support of Operation Hunger to an estimated 100,000 people, along with Hotline, Via Afrika, Juluka, All Night Radio, Ella Mental, Steve Kekana, Harari, Mara Louw and The Rockets. This is Junk Jive live at the Concert in the Park…
Q. How did you get along with your contemporary bands at the time?
A. That’s a good question. Um…at some point from 1982 onwards we were totally focussed on our music and on developing our sound and we rarely met up with any other bands. Although I have to admit that when a fire gutted our equipment in 1982, well before we had any success, many local bands did a benefit gig for us to raise money so we could replace our equipment. It was such a touching thing to do and we really appreciated it.
But generally speaking we didn’t mix with other bands that much. In the early days as Void we did a gig at the Polo Club in Springs with our East Rand contemporaries The Radio Rats. That was a big deal at the time, and Ozzie went on to play for them years later. And I also developed a close bond with Wonderboom in 2006 which came about when Danny de Wet asked me to fly out and produce the City Of Gold album. That was a great experience. Not only did we produce an album together I even got to skydive with the boys.
But during the eVOID heyday in the early 80’s we didn’t have much contact with other bands. I mean, I Ioved Ellamental and Via Afrika but we didn’t move in the same circles, so we never got to meet and chat much. We certainly didn’t hang out at clubs all night, that sort of thing. And neither did we do any drugs or heavy drinking at the time. I’m talking about Erik and I. Wayne was a law unto himself. But no, really. I smoked dope when I was younger but not during the eVOID years. And the same for Erik. We were the Nerdy Fadgets! Oh dear, maybe you shouldn’t print that.
We were also both in serious relationships at the time which probably had something to do with it.
In intervening years the Windrich brothers were going through a period of personal introspection: they had reached the pinnacle of their career in South Africa and perhaps it was time to head overseas. They were not happy with the production of their first album and Eric had received his call up from the SANDF. Wayne Harker quit éVoid to join the Cape Town band, Askari and in 1985 the brothers left for London where they set up an eight-track studio in their garage and performed as a four-piece with fellow South Africans, Ilne Hofmeyr on bass and Richard Devey on drums. For most of 1986 they worked on their second album: Here Comes the Rot from which WEA released the single Dance the Instinct/Sergeant Major. This is the demo for Dance the Instinct…
Q. So the original plan was that this was to be released as a single in South Africa but that never happened? Your decision or WEA?
A. Dance the Instinct was definitely released as a single in SA. Actually I’m glad you put up the demo of Dance the Instinct in the link. I prefer that version.
The band learned that their infectious Afro sounds did not appeal to British A&R executives and no new opportunities presented themselves. Meanwhile back in South Africa, WEA released . . . Here Comes the Rot in December 1986, to coincide with éVoid’s six-week nationwide tour of the country. This is Altar Pop which contained the line “Here Comes the Rot”
Q. That tour went very well didn’t it and you were playing to packed houses again. perhaps it may have been a better option to stay and plan a strategy to invade the USA instead? Were your albums released in the USA and if so how did they fare?
No. There was no penetration into the US market. Sometime in 1983 Mutt Lange saw us playing at the Chelsea Hotel and he told Zomba Records about this young band he had seen in SA. Zomba records offered us a 9 year deal, the same deal that was offered to The Stone Roses who accepted it. Karl, our older brother/manager advised us not to go for the deal as it was tying us up for too long. Had we accepted the deal we would have become international artists for a few years before ending up in court, like The Stone Roses did fighting to get out of the contract. Do we have any regrets? It’s always nice to have your music heard and appreciated far and wide but it wasn’t to be. We will never know what might’ve happened. It’s a toss of the coin as to what the future holds … I wasn’t doing much astrology back then.
In the blurb leading up to this you mention that our ‘infectious Afro sounds did not appeal to British A&R executives’.
It wasn’t so much the music as us being white South Africans and our bizarrely colourful image that they objected to. I’ll tell you a story.
It was snowing in the UK in Feb 1985, and Erik and I went to our first and only appointment with Warner Brothers dressed like African warriors. We were excited but nervous. The young A&R man who met us, dressed as a Deutschpunk in black underground gear, took one look at us and said ‘you guys are like a canary amongst sparrows’.
Erik I looked confused.
‘The sparrows’, he said ‘will kill the canary’.
Charming. We weren’t off to a great start.
‘Aren’t all white South Africans murderers? he asked.
We left soon afterwards.
Without a UK record deal of course.
In 1993, the group released a compilation called, éVoid – Over the Years, and made it available on cassette for limited distribution at the Springbok Bar in London.
Q. Was this tape made up of songs from your first 2 albums or was this a live tape made in London? Any way to get one of these?
A. The songs on the cassette tape are available on Spotify under a new title – London Kazet. Have a look. They’re not songs from any of our previous albums. In 2006 we re-recorded a few of them (Mix it Up, Language of Love and Ikologi) and put them on Graffiti Lounge. But the original versions still exist on London Kazet. I still have one or two of the original cassettes somewhere.
Lucien and his wife and family live in East London while Erik, wife and family live in North West London. Erik has stated that since arriving in London in 1985 and trying to earn a living as respected musicians has never been easy, and éVoid’s arrival in London at the time of South Africa’s State of Emergency made people suspicious of them. The brothers did benefit from some lucky breaks and, over the next decade, played many clubs and festivals in the UK and Europe especially Germany.
Q. I believe you are a qualified astrologer now Lucien and Eric is a Creative And Performance Manager at an English high school? Can you tell us about your work and the “lucky breaks” you have had in London since 1985?
A. We’ve both been immersed in work and family life since we arrived in the UK. Erik has worked at that high school for many years developing projects and set designs. And I’ve been helping my wife, a midwife, run her health remedies business whilst doing my astrological research. Family life is important to us, in our own separate ways.
In the late 80’s Erik did quite a bit of film music and we worked together on a film called ‘On the Wire’. Erik had a solo venture called The Vision Thing and he recorded a solo album.
I’ve played in two other bands since being in the UK, The Redemption Blues Band and a punky gypsy instrumental band called Victor Menace. Both are now defunct.
My ‘lucky break’ was meeting my gorgeous wife, Cath, on New Year’s Eve, 1992 at the Springbok bar in Paddington. I was on stage, she was in the crowd. I walked off stage to say hello and we hugged each like we had known each for years. I remember it like it was yesterday.
Erik’s ‘lucky breaks’ include meeting his wife Alix in 1991, performing in Paris as “The Vision Thing” and having a permanent job since 2004.
Following the demise of Askari in Cape Town Wayne Harker was summoned to rejoin the band (with Ilne Hofmeyr) and record new material. He stayed with the band for for years in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s which included a 6 week German tour. Obtaining a work permit Harker met and married a German girl and settled in Cologne. He developed musically and apart from drums now plays bass guitar, and keyboards and in 2006 he finally released his debut solo album Culture Shock under the Sea Weed monicker and turning it into a live act.
Q. Do you still hear from Wayne and is he still recording and performing in Cologne?
A. No, we have no contact with Wayne. I messaged him on Facebook a few years ago and he never got back to me. But, speak of the devil because today (17 June) he commented for the first time on an eVOID post on Facebook. Someone put up a clip of Shadows at Concert in the Park and his comment was ‘oh ja…those brothers who dropped me like a piece of shit’.
Wayne created his own problems in SA and we were forced to use other drummers. So yes we had to dump him. We briefly joined up again in England but then he met a German girl and went with her to Germany. As Erik explains ‘he never said eVOID was his ultimate goal – he just drifted away’.
In 2008, after a long hiatus, the brothers Windrich and original drummer Georg Voros released another éVoid album, Graffiti Lounge. This is Under Blue skies with it’s message of hope..
Q. Your music on this album is more folkish if one can say that? Your new direction? I believe you and Erik lived a family life and then in 2014 you released your greatest hits album; éVoid – Classics. I know you did a small South African tour to promote that CD and that was to visit your parents who are in their 80’s…
A. No it’s not a new direction. The only folkish sounding song is Not in my Name although I agree some of the others are more mellow. We really wanted to do another album so Erik suggested we invite Georg Voros and YoYo on bass to join us. Georg flew over and stayed with Erik during the recording of the album in East London. I’d been wanting to record Under Blue Skies for some time and I was really pleased with the way it came out. It’s a nice album.
The tour in 2014 was to commemorate 30 years since the release of our first album. It was more a tour of the Barnyard Theatres, too short really. We only did about 7 dates in two weeks. Lots of people complained they didn’t even know we were touring. We did one other outdoor Marquee gig in East London organised by Des Buys (R.I.P) and Themi, old friends of ours since the early days of eVOID. That was great, more like the gigs we prefer doing.
And yes it was great spending time with our elderly parents who are now in their nineties and who, believe it or not, are about to emigrate back to the Netherlands in July 2020. What a thing to do at their age.
This is an event booklet from éVoid’s LIVE in East London 2014 show..
Q. Are you and Eric currently working on anything and when I contacted you, you mentioned something about a live video? Could you please share for all the Fadgets who still love your sounds in South Africa? Any plans to come back and tour here any time soon? Any last words for those that may not have read your tweets?
A. No we’re not working on anything at the moment but we still have unreleased material in storage that we need to go through. Easily an album’s worth of material.
We don’t have any immediate plans to tour. I’m not even sure if the Johnny Clegg tribute gig is still happening in July.
Any last words? For the brief period of eVoid’s success (1983 -85) there were many years of blood, sweat and tears up to that point. I know it sounds like a cliché but you have to stick at it. I’m talking about young bands who are starting out. Be prepared to take risks and trust your intuition. How you overcome adversity is also important. Always be willing to bounce back and continue the journey no matter what.
It’s a privilege to have our music being played even to this day. And that isn’t something you can plan. All you can do is live in the moment. If you want to make an impact on the world around you do it in a joyous and positive way. And never diss your audience.
I also want to take this opportunity to thank the many musicians who have been involved in the making of Void – Aden Carter, Terry Andalis, Ozzie Theron and Danny de Wet without whom our inspirational start may never have got off the ground. There were other Void incarnations with line-ups including Neville Holmes (R.I.P.), Benji Mudie, Aggi de Aguiar, Ernie Parker and Kiki. And in the making of eVOID thanks to Ilne Hofmeyr (R.I.P.), Richard Devey, Georg Voros and Wayne Harker, and the session drummer who did Concert in the Park with us whose name I forget. I’ve probably missed out someone. Oh yes, Kevin Gibson the drummer who helped us out of a pickle in Durban when Wayne had to flee the club because the Military Police were after him. Thanks everyone for making it all happen. It would not have happened without your invaluable input and contributions.
Cheers Lucien, Ernesto Garcia Marques 24/06/2020